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  Click here to go to the first FarSight post in this thread.   Thread: WMS License - Speculation Thread

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    Senior Member Gorgias32's Avatar
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    WMS License - Speculation Thread

    I know this has been going on in some other threads, but I'd be interested in what ideas/speculations people have regarding what Scientific Games may be planning to do with the WMS licenses. Here are my thoughts, just brainstorming:

    1. New digital pinball game - what's really interesting is that they are being so firm in 1. not allowing future sales of already created tables, and 2. shutting down the Switch release so quickly. This leads me to believe they are planning on sublicensing/marketing a competing product to Farsight. I think this has to be the most likely option. Whether it's good or bad news for fans remains to be seen.
    2. Maybe the revenue they got from TPA was not enough to make it worth it to them to keep the license agreements in place (legal fees, time and focus), and they just want to sit on the licenses, hoping they gain value and can be sold at a higher price to someone eventually.
    3. Scientific Games bought the license in 2013, they are a gambling software company, possibly they are planning on doing some kind of gambling product (digital poker or something like that) using digital pinball licenses. Doesn't really explain why they wouldn't want TPA to have their tables, though, since TPA would just increase popularity of the games in general.
    4. More focus on "Remakes" of physical games - with Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars and now Monster Bash getting "remade" and sold in real life, maybe they are locking down the IP to focus more on this. It doesn't really make sense, I guess, since TPA has almost certainly been a primary vehicle for the resurgence of popularity of physical pinball, but it's a possibility that they are viewing digital pinball as some kind of competition


    Does anyone have any other ideas?

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    Senior Member EldarOfSuburbia's Avatar
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    I'm inclined towards #2, but possibly influenced by the Switch fiasco and a feeling that FS were playing "fast and loose" with the licensing terms. In the end if their bean counters say it's not worth continuing with the deal, they'll pull it. This to me has the same vibe as why some of the licensed tables were't even approachable - the IP holders just didn't see it as worth their time or money to even sit down and think about it.

    If all it takes is cash to take the licenses off Scientific Games hands, maybe just make a better offer than (speculatively) FS made to them? Give Gary Stern or Jersey Jack a call....
    "You've got an arm like a wet rag!" - The Dummy, Hurricane (Williams, 1991)
    "Ace of Clubs?!" - Bride of Pin*Bot, Jack*Bot (Williams, 1995)
    "You have been terminated. Have a nice day!" - Candy 2000, Safe Cracker (Williams, 1996)

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    Senior Member Blkthorne's Avatar
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    Well, I read somewhere that a former head of Electronic Arts is in charge of Scientific Games so we all know how competent that person is. :P Like I mentioned in a previous post I wouldn't be shocked to see another pinball app come out with prices $5+ per table and worse for highly licensed ones so all those complaining about Farsight's prices will go into rage mode. lol Personally, I think they will be like a lot of these companies that have old IP's and just stick them in the vault to rot cause they can, was stated in the podcast that those in charge have no passion/interest in pinball at all.
    Last edited by Blkthorne; 05-15-2018 at 07:21 AM.

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    Senior Member Gorgar's Avatar
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    Initially, I thought that Scientific Games got pissed when Farsight released on the Switch without checking with them if it was okay to do so. After listening to Shutyertrap's podcast, I kind of like the idea about Scientific Games being sick of negotiating with Farsight every two years and not wanting to sell them the rights to their complete library of pinball titles. Or maybe it is some kind of combination of the two theories.

    Personally, I don't think Scientific Games will care enough about their property to license their pinball tables to another company.

    Now, I feel like instead of being disappointed when a Gottlieb is released, I'll be hoping for a Gottlieb.

  5.   Click here to go to the next FarSight post in this thread.   #5
    FarSight Employee FarSight_Matt's Avatar
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    IMO judging by their website and their current products I think they're going to rot or be shoehorned into slot machines.

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    Senior Member Pinballwiz45b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarSight_Matt View Post
    IMO judging by their website and their current products I think they're going to rot or be shoehorned into slot machines.
    But they've already done that with AFM and RFM.

  7.   Click here to go to the next FarSight post in this thread.   #7
    FarSight Employee FarSight_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinballwiz45b View Post
    But they've already done that with AFM and RFM.
    Then they probably plan to just do more of this.

    https://www.sggaming.com/games/wms

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    Senior Member Citizen's Avatar
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    I'd love to be wrong, but as far as digital pinball purposes go, I'm gonna have to vote "they're going to sit on them and let them rot" with Matt and Blkthorne.

  9.   Click here to go to the next FarSight post in this thread.   #9
    FarSight Employee Tom Devaney's Avatar
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    1 wouldn't make any sense at all. If there's already a digital pinball game that's done some of the best tables already, and it's been out there for several years, it doesn't make much sense that they'd want to add a competitor when there's already such an established game. It'd be like Radical Heights trying to make it big on the Battle Royale hype even though Fortnite and PUBG are already the kings. Or even worse, it'd be like a new Battle Royale game trying to come out with their game 7 years after PUBG and Fortnite have already established themselves as kings.

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    Senior Member zmcvay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blkthorne View Post
    I wouldn't be shocked to see another pinball app come out with prices $5+ per table and worse for highly licensed ones so all those complaining about Farsight's prices will go into rage mode.
    Given current trends I'd actually assume it would be free to download with 1 token to play that recharges every 8 hours. You can then buy "pinboxes" that might contain extra tokens or might just be virtual stickers you can put on the virtual machine.

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    Senior Member Blkthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Devaney View Post
    1 wouldn't make any sense at all. If there's already a digital pinball game that's done some of the best tables already, and it's been out there for several years, it doesn't make much sense that they'd want to add a competitor when there's already such an established game. It'd be like Radical Heights trying to make it big on the Battle Royale hype even though Fortnite and PUBG are already the kings. Or even worse, it'd be like a new Battle Royale game trying to come out with their game 7 years after PUBG and Fortnite have already established themselves as kings.
    If it's true that the one running the place is a former EA exec, I wouldn't be surprised to see them double dip on a pinball app, would go in line with their philosophy at EA. The big difference is they have the rights to arguably greatest pinball tables in the world, 2/3 of TPA was Bally/Williams so they can just march those tables out and people would pay for them again. To be honest, I know I would if they were released again even at a higher price point.

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    We are never gonne see a legal digital williams table ever again. Because they are selfish *******s. That is what i am afraid for. They dont care about pinball and it does not give enough money, so put it in te closet and that is it.

    Disgusting!

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    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    If something's making you more money, why would you even stop? I don't get their logic, honestly. It makes no sense to me.
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    Best case scenario - they decide to sell off the license to cash in on the newly legalized sports betting and we get all the tables plus more back within a year.

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    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    the fish rots from the head , have a look at all your pollies , both sides , who take grubby money from any bastard !!! say no more !!!

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    Senior Member wolfson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaibun View Post
    If something's making you more money, why would you even stop? I don't get their logic, honestly. It makes no sense to me.
    Kaibun , have a look at Scientific Games , they deal in billions all round the world . the money they got from Farsight would`ve been chicken feed for them .

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    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarSight_Matt View Post
    IMO judging by their website and their current products I think they're going to rot or be shoehorned into slot machines.
    Agreed! They are pretty much pulling off a Konami. Take their well established IPs and make them into slot machines.

    Quote Originally Posted by FarSight_Matt View Post
    Then they probably plan to just do more of this.

    https://www.sggaming.com/games/wms
    I rest my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfson View Post
    Kaibun , have a look at Scientific Games , they deal in billions all round the world . the money they got from Farsight would`ve been chicken feed for them .
    It probably costs more to pay an employee to manage the WMS licenses, than what they are getting from Farsight.

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    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Devaney View Post
    1 wouldn't make any sense at all. If there's already a digital pinball game that's done some of the best tables already, and it's been out there for several years, it doesn't make much sense that they'd want to add a competitor when there's already such an established game. It'd be like Radical Heights trying to make it big on the Battle Royale hype even though Fortnite and PUBG are already the kings. Or even worse, it'd be like a new Battle Royale game trying to come out with their game 7 years after PUBG and Fortnite have already established themselves as kings.

    Don’t forget that H1Z1 was once the king long before anyone had even heard of PUBG, and it was dethroned, and now look at it...and Fornite has really only been popular for a few short months...so anything can happen in this industry.

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    Moderator shutyertrap's Avatar
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    I'm not gonna comment on this thread as I'm saving all my speculation for our podcast. Then I'll jump into the fray here. Instead this is me subscribing to the thread!
    I'm just sayin'

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    If it's really an EA exec in charge, then it's simply money. They probably saw what FarSight has done, and how much their kickstarters brought in, and thus didn't want to split it anymore - why shouldn't they get all the money?

    So they withdraw their licenses, and will probably try to shop it around - I mean, this digital pinball thing has to be big, right? And if not, well, it's gonna rot, like EA's done with many of their other licenses (see Origin Systems).

    It's probably money, and poorly done research. Like perhaps that MM re-release that happened a few years ago and sold out instantly. Perhaps they want to do more of those and don't want to be burdened by a cheap digital copy.

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    Senior Pigeon Kolchak357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'd love to be wrong, but as far as digital pinball purposes go, I'm gonna have to vote "they're going to sit on them and let them rot" with Matt and Blkthorne.
    My gut feeling as well.

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    There seems to be no evidence to suggest they plan on going to another software developer, so at this point, they took them back because they didn't want to deal with this stuff anymore.

    What drives me nuts is that if the Williams and Ballys tables were allowed to be sold on Switch until June, there would be a decent bump in revenue of everyone getting the tables for the Switch, or maybe not. I have no idea how the contract is done, if they get coin for every table sold or just a lump sum.
    Last edited by yespage; 05-16-2018 at 05:17 AM.

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    Senior Member EldarOfSuburbia's Avatar
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    Judging by their website, it looks like they just buy up any gaming or other interesting IP they can get their hands on, so they can recycle as much of that IP as they can into slots. So they will take the most marketable IPs from the WMS licenses for their slots, the rest is garbage they could care less about. But as long as they're using it for their slots, they'll hold on to it.
    "You've got an arm like a wet rag!" - The Dummy, Hurricane (Williams, 1991)
    "Ace of Clubs?!" - Bride of Pin*Bot, Jack*Bot (Williams, 1995)
    "You have been terminated. Have a nice day!" - Candy 2000, Safe Cracker (Williams, 1996)

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    Gomez Addams: "There, see what greed will get you?"

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