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  Click here to go to the first FarSight post in this thread.   Thread: If you're experiencing flipper delay in TPA PC version, please read this.

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    If you're experiencing flipper delay in TPA PC version, please read this.

    Hi,

    I'm posting this as a separate thread such that it can be easily found and help others also enjoy the PC version of TPA to its fullest.

    I'd been experiencing the flipper delay in fullscreen mode also and it was kind of ruining my Pinball Arcade experience. Luckily there's a solution for both NVidia and AMD cards that solves this input delay problem for the PC version.

    The flipper delay in fullscreen mode is caused by a mechanic in Windows that sets the number of "back buffer frames" that a driver can queue. Sadly this value defaults to three frames, which is good for watching video, or running a game on heavily underpowered machines, but it is very bad for fast action gaming like pinball, especially when the host PC can easily cope with the vsync update rate of TPA.

    1. Solving it from a user perspective

    Solution for NVidia:
    Go to the control panel and set the global "maximum pre-rendered frames" to 1, as in the following picture:



    Solution for ATI / AMD:
    This is almost unbelievable, but AMD doesn't provide an option to set this value. Luckily there's a neat and clean workaround via the "RadeonPro" tool. Download it at http://www.radeonpro.info and set the "Flip Queue Size" in the "Advanced" panel to 0 or 1. You can set this value gobally, or you can create a profile for a single program (TPA in this case):



    2. Solving it from the programmers perspective (possible solution)

    The flipper delay problem can possibly also be solved from the Pinball Arcade side, so this is for Mike and/or Stuart. From your code you can set the maximum frame latency by calling IDirect3DDevice9Ex::SetMaximumFrameLatency method, and change the ridiculously high default value of 3 to a much more sane value of 1. See for a full description the MSDN site here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx. Possibly this value should be configurable from the TPA config utility? I've seen blockbuster type of games also doing it that way (I think Metro Last Light also has this configurable from its options).

    Best of luck to all and Happy Gaming!

  2. #2
    Senior Pigeon Kolchak357's Avatar
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    Maybe a mod can merge this with...
    http://pinballarcadefans.com/showthr...-is-it-just-me
    High scores located in Blog.

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    I don't have an AMD card so I can't say if they behave differently, but Nvidia removed the 0 option because that actually just lets the game handle the queue size - and is typically set to 3 by default. You probably want to set it to 1 rather than 0.
    I don't recommend setting it to 1 globally, as it will reduce performance in games. Something like The Pinball Arcade where performance demands are not high, but latency is very important, should be set to 1 though.
    Last edited by Just Some Guy; 11-05-2013 at 05:47 AM.

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    Senior Member xNiCeGuYx's Avatar
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    Confirmed!
    1 is better than 0 with ATI/AMD.
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    Most wanted TPA feature: Tournament Mode (hard mode) for each table

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    Member Gozer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Some Guy View Post
    I don't have an AMD card so I can't say if they behave differently, but Nvidia removed the 0 option because that actually just lets the game handle the queue size - and is typically set to 3 by default. You probably want to set it to 1 rather than 0.
    I don't recommend setting it to 1 globally, as it will reduce performance in games. Something like The Pinball Arcade where performance demands are not high, but latency is very important, should be set to 1 though.
    This.

    Do not set maximum pre-rendered frames globally. Do it within TPA profile.

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    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolchak357 View Post
    We'll keep this separate since it provides a fix/workaround in the first post. I'll close the other thread though so we can keep further discussion centralized here. I'll sticky this for now as well.
    Last edited by Jeff Strong; 11-05-2013 at 08:52 AM.

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    Hi,

    I'm not sure if my issue is strictly the same but when testing the TPA demo tables on my pc I have found that the ball movement slows down considerably on the lower part of the playfield on all tables but is normal speed on the ramps.

    my setup is
    asus M4A78LT-M motherboard
    AMD x4 @3.00ghz
    4gb ddr3 ram
    windows 7 home 64bit
    and integrated ati radeon 3000 graphics

    and i am running at 1600 x 1050 with everything turned off on config utility

    I am guessing the GPU is the problem and I am thinking about getting one probably a GTX 650ti

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    Thanks for the tip, worked a treat!
    Gamertag: Chico Choker

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    Wow! What a difference the "maximum pre-rendered frames 1" setting makes. I was under the impression that I had *no* lag to begin with, but now with the setting changed the flippers are unbelievably snappy. For the first few minutes I was flipping way too early ;-) I urge *everyone* to try this setting. It's a game changer!

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    Is there a way to adjust the pre-rendered frames for a Intel HD Graphics 4000 yet?

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    Senior Member Deltaechoe's Avatar
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    Another thing you can do if you don't want to monkey sound in the video card settings is to switch to fullscreen windowed
    Dopefish lives!

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    Senior Member JPelter's Avatar
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    Note that you can also set this by program for nvidia if you go to the "program settings" tab in that first screenshot and find pinball arcade there.

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    Senior Member DrainoBraino's Avatar
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    Wow this really helped, thanks!

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    Senior Member BonzoGonzo's Avatar
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    using this method i can play with post processing turned on and no input lag

    (before i had to switch the post processing off becouse it resulted in massive flipper delay)
    ---------XBOX360---------
    TOTAN - 270,074,590 , RBION - 320,675,550 , BH - 1,742,550 , TOM - 8,681,535,850 , BoP - 3,258,713,230 , MM - 383,713,850 , FH - 189,584,980 , CV - 164,605,630 , GG - 1,610,310 , MB - 2,983,094,280

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    Senior Member MontanaFrank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin_Foil View Post
    Is there a way to adjust the pre-rendered frames for a Intel HD Graphics 4000 yet?
    +1
    If you are not playing "The Pinball Arcade", you aint' playing real pinball!

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    Really nice solution.

    Note for Nvidia users: Instead of changing this globally, you can set this only for TPA by selecting the tab "Program Settings" in the screenshot above. When you add TPA to the "Program Settings" and do the "Pre-rendered frames 1" change there, this does not interfere with other games.

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    Member seattlemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpafan View Post

    or you can create a profile for a single program (TPA in this case)
    I haven't found a way to set a RadeonPro tool Profile to point to The Pinball Arcade out of Steam. I think that the RadeonPro Profile Open dialogue is looking for the game's .exe or .com, and all I can find for TPA on my PC is "steam://rungameid/238260". Any suggestions of how to save it as a profile specific to TPA? (Otherwise, I will stay with the Global setting in the RadeonPro tool, but that will affect everything running on this PC.)


    P.S. I found a video about the RadeonPro tool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU71HkUht5Q
    I think this is one in a series of videos by this person, with a couple dealing with the tool.
    Last edited by seattlemark; 11-05-2013 at 07:57 PM.

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    Senior Member JPelter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seattlemark View Post
    I haven't found a way to set a RadeonPro tool Profile to point to The Pinball Arcade out of Steam. I think that the RadeonPro Profile Open dialogue is looking for the game's .exe or .com, and all I can find for TPA on my PC is "steam://rungameid/238260". Any suggestions of how to save it as a profile specific to TPA? (Otherwise, I will stay with the Global setting in the RadeonPro tool, but that will affect everything running on this PC.)


    P.S. I found a video about the RadeonPro tool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU71HkUht5Q
    I think this is one in a series of videos by this person, with a couple dealing with the tool.
    The gamefiles are stored in steamdrive:\steam/steamapps/common/PinballArcade/* where steamdrive is the HD partition your steam files are in. You should be able to find the exe there.
    Last edited by JPelter; 11-05-2013 at 09:55 PM.

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    Member seattlemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPelter View Post
    The gamefiles are stored in steamdrive:\steam/steamapps/common/PinballArcade/* where steamdrive is the HD partition your steam files are in. You should be able to find the exe there.
    Thanks. Using your tip and a search, I found it on my 64 bit PC in: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\PinballArcade.exe
    Last edited by seattlemark; 11-06-2013 at 08:05 AM.

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    Senior Member SilverBalls's Avatar
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    This is a good tip and the same thing applied to me for Visual Pinball in my cab some time ago.

    Also another thing to reduce lag which most people may already know is when using a TV always turn off any TV picture processing. Eg: Game mode, on LGs change to JustScan, etc. This should also turn off 100/120 hz processing so the TV runs at 50/60 hz (no frame interpolation).

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    Thanks for posting this!! It works great and now I am going to finally purchase all the tables. I was not happy they way the flippers worked on my high end gaming pc and decided not to purchase. This fixed everything and it works perfect!

  22. #22
    Moderator Jeff Strong's Avatar
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    Something seems to have improved in the latest patch. I was getting a bit of lag on Monster Bash, but not anymore.

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    dudes! thx. amazing work.

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    Often, switching the display mode to "full screen window" will disable the flip queue completely, since enforcing it on the desktop would make the computer feel sluggish. so try that first.

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    Senior Member JPelter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod77 View Post
    Often, switching the display mode to "full screen window" will disable the flip queue completely, since enforcing it on the desktop would make the computer feel sluggish. so try that first.
    Yeah any kind of windowed mode should remove the extra pre-rendering. If you want to play fullscreen for whatever reason the fixes help though.
    PS3 - JPelter (inactive), Steam - Space Tractor

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